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Thread: Dilemma V ◇ Finale ◇ Winner Announced

  1. #343
    Queen of Thorns Estquer's Avatar
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    Hi Rob!

    So my initial reading of your question was that it was sarcastic and you're not actually interested. If that's the case, fair enough

    On the off chance you meant it though, here are the main reasons I want to win.

    1. I survived against the wishes of the powerful in this game.

    There's something about being targeted consistently in a game that makes me really want to fight back. I instantly become way more invested in a game if people want me gone. Throughout the entire game, I was never a true part of any major alliance and I was given terrible social scores round after round. I thought I was going to be eliminated so many times that it probably comes across as a recurring joke in my confessionals. I outlasted my expiration date here by months.

    The fact that in a game like this, without a strong social presence, I was able to out-compete many strong players, use game mechanics to my advantage where I could, and act independently to survive when I was marked for annihilation time and time again makes me hungry fore this win. I didn't survive all that to just lose a jury vote in the finale. (I mean, this may turn out to happen, but that's not obviously what I want to happen ). I stayed on the site to close out my experience in this game because of how satisfying it was to defy the odds. Finishing with a win would feel great in so many ways.

    I understand that it doesn't matter on like... a cosmic level or whatever. But I'm here, fighting for my spot, and I hope you want to celebrate the chaos and disruption my presence in the finale offers to plans of the people who wanted me out.

    2. I'm invested in Lluvy as a character.

    Lluvy Gomez is (at this point) a relatively obscure reality show participant who last had a TV appearance in 2005 (America's Next Top Model). There is nothing particularly remarkable about her performance on the show in terms of personality, or lasting impact on the franchise. However, she did have one memorable moment, when Tyra Banks declared that this masterpiece...



    ...was the "worst photo in America's Next Top Model history" and the judges further compared her to a dead fish. Which, like... fair.

    She became an important character for me in my experience on the site, especially since back in those days it was a lot more active so there was much more social roleplaying and so forth. That initial moment morphed into characterization extremely distant from her as an America's Next Top Model contestant, culminating in choices I made like having her as the CEO of a shady genetically-modified fish corporation to host Goldfish Rush, that she was an actual fish, or as some kind of abstract fatalist sea goddess. I've played as her in many games at this point, but no matter how well I did, I would always fall short. (I've placed third as this character three times.) Given the state of the site, this might be my last time to ever play as this character and I'm in a position where I could finally win. It would be an incredibly satisfying culmination to her story arc for me.

    I think one of the big points of a reality tv site like this is to celebrate obscure, irrelevant TV characters like this in increasingly absurd ways. It's part of taking ownership of your fandom and expressing it through the fun of games/chatting. Even though there's no reason to care about Lluvy Gomez, I was made to care because I cared about my experiences on the site over many years. I signed up as her this time hoping to revive her legacy and bring it to the close, so the fact that it might actually happen in this game would be such a great way to close it out.

    3. This could be the end of RTVG.

    As many people seem to be saying, it feels like the games section on the site has collapsed. I have this horrible sense that this could be the last game I get to play here. I don't want that to be true. I want the site to continue. But god, considering that possibility, this is a finale that matters even more than before. Maybe this is only the end of a chapter, and the site will have a resurgence and continue. I want to host again if I can, even with how difficult it is for me to balance that responsibility with what's happening in my life. If this is the end, though, I want to end it with a win. I've been a member of the site since the beginning, an an active member for most of those years, so it's had a huge impact on my life. Maybe it's petty, but I feel like I'd have a stronger sense of closure winning my last game than losing it. And maybe that's not a great reason to vote for me, but it's a huge part of why I want this win.

  2. #344
    Queen of Thorns Estquer's Avatar
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    Hi Ho! Thanks for the thoughtful questions. Here are my responses.

    Lluvy, the others tried to sell you as a dominant force in this game who would obviously win if you made it to the end. Do you think that was a fair assessment or do you think they were just playing you up to convince me to let you get eliminated before the finale?
    I think there's a grain of truth to both sides of this. On one hand, I think it's fair to say that in most situations, if I make it to the end, I'm at least in contention. In terms of jury phases, I feel like one of my strengths is being able to show my narrative in a way that is generally self-aware, and also highlight my dedication. In terms of the game itself, I was a significant force, sweeping people out through various Danger situations, and surviving despite all these efforts to get rid of me. That's a powerful story to tell, and I'm beyond thankful that I have a chance to tell it.

    But I do think that portraying me as an "obvious winner" is an exaggeration. There are players who may value different aspects of gameplay than the strengths that I showed this time, as well as players who might be basing their decisions more on social circumstances or their game relationships with the other finalists. I do think that the two of them ending up in a finale with me does give me a minor structural edge under the first-past-the-post voting system that Vashhee set up. Since Runic and Nyan worked together, they risk splitting the vote with each other as they have similar strengths and similar allies. I represent a distinctive brand with different allies, and a different path to the end, so it's entirely possible that I could win with a plurality. Runic and Nyan have to work hard to argue what is distinctive about their path, where I feel like I can very clearly set myself apart and draw from a different "electorate". From that perspective, there's obviously a strategic benefit for them to end up in a different finale configuration than this current one.

    So to sum it up, I think they did have a point in the sense that I have a realistic shot at winning this. But that reality is obscured by the fact that the jurors can make independent decisions and have distinct criteria. I'd be at least a little surprised if I turned out to be a "runaway" winner, especially considering the potential for a trainwreck resulting from very low voter turnout.

    Also, had I not told you what was going on do you think you would have been able to survive the final Dilemma?
    It's hard to know for sure since we can't "see" that timeline, but what I can do is show my thought process at each stage and evaluate the potential outcomes.

    1. Initially, I intended to Betray.

    Before I talked to you, my default position was that I was going to Betray. This could've had three different outcomes.

    First, in the scenario where all four of you aligned and I was the sole Betray, I would've been eliminated in 5th place. I'm not sure if everyone else allying is part of the hypothetical here (it sounds like it isn't?) but that was a risk I was willing to take.

    In a mixed betray/ally scenario (where one or more players got greedy), I would've advanced to the finale with the other betrayers.

    Finally, in the event of an all-betray scenario, the two of us would've advanced to the finale together due to our grid scores. This was my preferred timeline, but obviously at the time I didn't know what the grid scores were.

    So, in the event that we never spoke and I had no idea what was going on, that's what likely could've happened.

    2. After our first exchanges, I switched my opinion to Ally.

    You were the only player left in the game that I had a connection with, and I respected your willingness to talk with me and work toward an all-ally situation even though I wasn't a key member of the alliance or anything. At some point, you have to place trust in other players. That's how this game works, and you had proven yourself to be a trustworthy person and player so I was willing to ride out that situation with you regardless of what happened. If this is where our conversations ended and other people betrayed, then yes, I would've been eliminated with you.

    3. After our final exchanges, I switched back to Betray.

    You tipped me off at the end, so I switched my decision and ended up advancing to the finale. I want to give you fair credit here: you had the power to decide whether or not I made the finale. I placed trust with you, and could've made either decision. If placing my fate in your hands is a reason that I don't deserve to win the game in your eyes, then I respect that decision. But the fact that you proved that my trust in you was warranted is a reflection that it did ultimately end up being a good decision for me. I'm so thankful that you gave me the chance to be here in the finale. I wanted to be here with you. But I'm here now, on my own, and I still want to ****ing win. After all that I went through in this game round after round, seeing the people I was working with get taken out, and surviving danger after danger, I'm asking you for one final favor: your vote. God, I want to win this, and I hope you aren't disappointed in how I got here. It means a lot to me that you were willing to help me get here when no one else was working with me.

    To all of you: The site is clearly dying and this could be your last strategy game. Tell me a little bit about what the site has meant to you and why you feel like now is the time it's coming to an end.

    This is a complex question to answer, so I hope I can do it some justice; we'll see. Because I've been here since the beginning of the site, I feel like I have a distinct perspective on it. And I don't mean to condescend to the other two finalists, or anyone else who has a relationship to this site; it's just that this has been a huge part of my life for a very long time, and I've seen many versions of the site, many waves of people who were active and then left.

    When I consider the place that RTVG has had in my life, I think it has shaped me, in both positive and negative ways. I'm going to start with the negative, just to get it over with. There have been many times when I prioritized the site over things that ultimately had material consequences. In 2010, for example, I failed university classes because I stayed up all night talking on Skype chats and doing challenges or other stuff on the site. While I did eventually recover from that, it showed that RTVG contributed a lot to my inability to set priorities. It was the ultimate escapist vehicle; a place where I had fun and friendship and connections and didn't have to dwell on the changes in my life that I was struggling with. I let a lot of my "real life" friendships and family relationships wither and die because I detached from the "real" world and spent as much time as I could in this virtual space. Hell, even RIGHT NOW, I could be working on my writing, or addressing the huge backlog of grading I have this quarter, but instead I'm writing this increasingly meta essay because I choose to place my competitive drive to win this game above priorities that should matter more.

    When I reflect on the current state of my life, I can trace a lot of these patterns of detachment, disconnection, and dissociation to RTVG. It even altered my sleep schedule. RTVG trained me in a nocturnal sleep habit that basically has never broken. It might not be possible for me anymore to live a "normal" daytime schedule because even when I put a lot of focus on it, my now natural routine snaps back into place. And even think about how much time I put into designing and hosting games. Some of my most interesting creative output has been in unpaid forum games which have done really nothing to help me in the creative fields I'm interested in as I can't really cite them as credits, even though I'm proud of what I created. To think, what if I put those thousands of hours somewhere that "mattered"? Maybe I'd be something other than an increasingly alienated grad student.

    But I want to also focus on the positives. I've had so many great, complex, interesting relationships with people I never would've gotten to meet if not for the context of the site. There's something really remarkable about relationships forged through repeated trust and betrayal. Being in dozens of RTVG games is the ultimate stress test for a friendship in a lot of ways, and I feel like RTVG trained me to be mindful of my thoughts and actions; to place my competitive spirit where it mattered and to not use it as an excuse to be hurtful.

    I grew so much as a person from interacting here. I learned what sociopaths were through lived experience in an RTVG game. If I'd had to deal with that in real life first, I might have put myself in dangerous situations. But because I had that experience here, first, it was a "safer" way to learn that life lesson. RTVG was also a really important support network for me when I was coming out. I didn't have that support elsewhere.

    Not only that, but the games are just fun. Some of the most intense competitive experiences I've had have been in live challenges, or strategically dense situations. Having to navigate emotions and strategies in a competitive context in real time can be exhilarating.

    And creatively, I don't know that I'll ever have another opportunity like RTVG. Because of the platform, I had the opportunity to design pretty much any game I could imagine using the tools at my disposal. Not only that, but people would then willingly sign up for those games and fight hard for their wins. Seeing some of the most diabolical game mechanics I could think of interact in real time was something truly special. Over the course of my time at the site, I grew to enjoy playing less and hosting more. I could host the weirdest, most abstract concepts and people would still give it a chance. Hell, as recently as 2017, THIRTY people signed up to play Goldfish Rush, a game I completely made up based on no existing reality show or game format that I'm aware of. That's a creatively fulfilling experience, and that matters to me. I know I mused earlier about how RTVG detracted from my creative output in other fields, but you know what? People had fun. People had emotionally interesting experiences in these games that not a lot of people got to have since it's such a weird, niche community. I'm so thankful not only for the support for my hosting, but that I was able to give something to a community of people I care about.

    So it's had a lot of huge impacts on my life, positive and negative. It's in many ways a formative place for my identity, humor, and so on. It's tough to see the site in this zombie state, still online but working improperly, people still here but not sure it will continue. In some respects, it would've been easier if it just suddenly disappeared; a clean break.

    I could say more—so much more, about so many things. I'm definitely willing to continue this conversation on whatever aspect people want to talk about, but I'll leave it there for now.

    I'm also really interested in what kind of responsibility you think you have for the site's current state or if you would do anything if you were able to to help revive it.

    This is another tough question. I don't want to overestimate my contributions to this site's rise and decline, but given my position and role in the game section of the community I think it's important to acknowledge these things. My primary contributions to this site have been through hosting games. I feel like, in many cases, I gave people reasons to keep showing up. When I was able to keep a more rigorous hosting schedule, the site became more active and could sustain a larger user base. Administratively, I've contributed far less. Some of this is structured into the site. For example, one of the primary sticking points over the years has been the ability to create and move subforums. I have never been granted that power. So when people asked me for it, I could never help them because I didn't have the authority to do so, even with a blue username.

    Maybe I should've fought harder for that authority. I was given this position because of my hosting credentials and longevity with the site, not because I have any specialized knowledge about how to run a website. At the very beginning, this site split off from another forum after they closed down the reality games section and banned everyone from it. I won't speak for Aly's experience, but for me personally, I don't know that at age FOURTEEN, I had any idea what the **** went into running a website. I still kind of don't. So if I took my position more seriously, taken up more administrative responsibilities, perhaps the stress of running a website this complex would've been more relieved for her. I don't know. I can't change time. If I'm responsible for the decline due to my inaction, I take that responsibility where it's due.

    More recently, my real life obligations have made it increasingly difficult to stay attached to the site. It's hard seeing the decline in my own hosting quality. So many of my recent games have died compared to the high success rate I used to be able to maintain. I know that I can do better, but in these conditions where I have to put out (metaphorical) fires that have been burning due to responsibilities endlessly deferred to try and do the things I want to do in life.

    One other factor that I don't think should be underestimated is the decline of reality TV in general. I'll only speak for myself here, but like... I haven't watched the last two or three seasons of Survivor. There was a time when that would be unthinkable. I just am not as interested in the topic that is the general premise of the site, and I think competitive reality shows, though they've been stale for a long time, have become increasingly irrelevant. A lot of the core shows that defined early RTVG are off the air or might as well be.

    As to what I can do, I don't know. If enough people are here that want me to host a game, even under these difficult conditions, I'll find the time to make that happen. I'll design a game that's easy to maintain so that people can stick to the deadlines and I won't kill it when my life situation becomes more difficult. That's the best I've been able to contribute in the past—hosting and playing games—and I'll keep doing it when I can until the site really does die. If you want me to host something—to continue—I will. I promise. But I can't host a game for no one, either. Without players, hosting is meaningless.

  3. #345
    Queen of Thorns Estquer's Avatar
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    Hi Andrei!

    Here you go:

      Spoiler:  


    Ask a meme question, and you'll get a meme answer.

  4. #346
    Brains, Booty, Business VanityEgo's Avatar
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    <33 Thank you Estqueen


  5. #347


    Winner voting will now commence!

    Jurors and finalists have had a week to participate. It's time to decide the winner.

    Finalists are still permitted to respond to jury questions. You should be prompt.

    Jurors, if you are quick you may still be able to participate as the winner voting
    deadline will be at least 7 days.












    Jury, you are voting for one (or more) of the following players:

    Beth ◇ Runic
    Gia ◇ Nyan
    Lluvy ◇ Estquer


    If you have more than one vote, you are permitted to split your vote between finalists.
    The number of votes you have will be outlined in your PM. You may accompany your vote
    with a statement.

    The jury will have at least 7 days to vote to ensure I get as many votes as possible.

    Last edited by Vashhee; 11-18-2019 at 07:12 AM.

    Christie • Cliff • David • Kathryn • Kemi • Nicole • Ovi • Sam • Tommy •

  6. #348
    Queen of Thorns Estquer's Avatar
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    Alright! Thanks for the questions, everyone.

    I'll keep checking in periodically in case any other jurors show up to ask questions. Otherwise, good luck to Nyan and Runic!

  7. #349
    now are the glory days 🌙 Phoenix's Avatar
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    *walks in ~ f a s h i o n a b l y ~ late with starbucks*








    OOPS SORRY IT'S B--wait fuck





    that's better IT'S BEEN 84 YEARS! but my name is rachel crow and i got some things to say. i'm really sorry for not showing up earlier, i hadn't been in the best mind-frame to be completely honest...but i said i was going to take part in this jury questioning, and i'm finally feeling adequate enough to do so. congratulations to you three for making it to the end! you guys have been absolute forces to be reckoned with in your own ways throughout this competition, so you very much deserve to be here. usually, i would be deciding who to vote for with how y'all address us as the main factor, but given the site's current state, i'm willing to be a little more lax about that. just a little, though. with that said, i've got my three questions: one that's serious, one more fun, and one personalized to each of you! let's do this.



    1. as we all know, this has been a fairly tame season in regards to how the main mechanic of dilemma--the dilemma itself--was utilized. not a whole lot of shadiness, not a whole lot of betrayals...even though the chaos of the twists and powers and a couple particular rounds helped balance this out, the lack of bloodshed did hold this season back somewhat. looking back on your respective games, do you think they would've benefited from you being more deceitful, and backstabbing more often? if so, how would you have gone about it, since it is such a careful dance to maneuver in? if not, what quality of your social game gives it a noteworthy edge, and how did it contribute to you reaching the finale?
    2. pick at least 7 people who make up this jury, and describe how you perceived them as players of this game in just 5 words. you can be shady and sassy, you can be clever and creative, however you see fit! bonus points if you do this for every single person on the jury.




    to beth: hi girl! you were a very fierce ally to work with from start to finish, and i very much respect how you're not afraid to get your hands dirty whenever you deem necessary, especially with the format of this ORG. but let's say that, in an alternate universe with a much more active cast and less unstable site, you're in this exact same seat with these exact same fellow finalists...except you have some people here on the jury who are very bitter and angry with you for betraying them in a few dilemmas, or in some other and more indirect way. what general argument(s) would you make to them in that case, to try and sway their opinion or at the very least defuse those tensions?

    to gia: hey there, miss boom boom gunn! i find your arc similar to beth's to be honest, which is a good thing since that's a testament to how strong you both were as competitors in my eyes this season...but at the same time, that can make receiving our votes more difficult for you. so what would you say really differentiates your journey from hers, and why would you say so?

    to lluvy: people came for you hard from the jump, but you just fought for your spot even harder...and now you have a shot at winning. you definitely make for an interesting candidate as the underdog with so many odds stacked against her but still managing to claw her way to the top, but i am curious...you're more than aware that you were struggling with your connections, and i know you've also been quite busy as well. but if you were able to prepare yourself for the challenges, why couldn't you try and improve your social ties? was there nothing that could be done to at least get some foothold on the dynamics?



    i hope i get to hear more of y'all's thoughts before i distribute my votes. best of luck!



  8. #350
    Queen of Thorns Estquer's Avatar
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    Hi Phoenix!

    1. as we all know, this has been a fairly tame season in regards to how the main mechanic of dilemma--the dilemma itself--was utilized. not a whole lot of shadiness, not a whole lot of betrayals...even though the chaos of the twists and powers and a couple particular rounds helped balance this out, the lack of bloodshed did hold this season back somewhat. looking back on your respective games, do you think they would've benefited from you being more deceitful, and backstabbing more often? if so, how would you have gone about it, since it is such a careful dance to maneuver in? if not, what quality of your social game gives it a noteworthy edge, and how did it contribute to you reaching the finale?
    I aimed to avoid participating in Dilemmas as much as possible this season, but I would point out that I ended up Betraying in 2 out of the 3 Dilemmas that I did participate in. For the first Dilemma I allied in (the Vortex Dilemma), I don't think it would have benefited me to Betray there because VULpicks. and isaiah were people I was working with, and I didn't feel particularly positively nor negatively toward Remco.

    In the second Dilemma, I Betrayed with mixed results (as I have discussed in previous answers). Perhaps it would've been worth trying to coordinate with betinez or 1331nj there, but since the second life twist made it impossible to directly remove someone from the game in that round's Dilemma, the benefits to making a move there are minimal. I don't really think any outcome for that Dilemma could have significantly advanced or hindered my game. Honestly, even now, it's hard to tell what the best result would've been due to the Butterfly Effect. Since I made it to the end I don't think it's worth changing it. #HindsightBias

    And then, of course, I Betrayed in the Final Dilemma which allowed me to advance to the finals, though I'd argue that wasn't a case of deception.

    So I don't think this set of queries applies to me too much, as I participated in so few Dilemmas, and the outcomes of those Dilemmas worked out for me. But I do agree with your general premise that the Betray mechanic was under-utilized. I think the add-pocalypse was the main contributing factor, as it made three-person Dilemmas exceedingly rare. As soon as that fourth person is added to a Dilemma, you need two people to work together to Betray most effectively. But it takes two to tango. The person I encountered in this game who seemed most on board with a duo betrayal was VanityEgo, but I was never in a Dilemma with him. When I broached the subject with others, people were resistant to the idea (Gary and eagle2ch come to mind). There were many contributing factors to why few Betrayals occurred, but I really think the Addpocalypse bears the most responsibility.

    To respond to the second part of your question, I feel I've been pretty forthright in these answers that social game was the weakest area of gameplay for me. However, just because I was not in the dominant alliance, I still forged valuable connections that enabled me to survive in situations where I had low social information about what was going on. The short-term bonds that I forged with players like Andrei, isaiah, and Gary allowed me to survive some of the sketchy earlier rounds. Then, at the end, my connection with eagle2ch allowed me to have enough information to advance to the finale. I'm not saying I controlled his choice here—it was ultimately his. But I'd like to think that the reason he helped me get to the end was because he values our relationship and because he appreciated my openness and honesty with my choices every time I talked to him. After some communications in the early rounds (where I asked if he'd have any interest in working with Andrei to double-betray) and he soundly rejected that idea, I realized that I needed to take a completely upfront, non-shady approach with him. So in terms of social game, I think recognizing what players want from you, and what their value systems are, allows your pitches to have a greater level of success.

    Put more succinctly, I got the most "bang for my buck" in my social game. While I didn't do a lot on that front, the actions I did take propelled me through rounds where I could've been taken out. This efficiency also meant that I never over-promised to anyone. I think I made correct choices in terms of choosing when to put more focus on social game. But I also didn't steer the general outcomes of rounds as I was more focused on my own personal advancement rather than the collective advancement of an alliance.

    2. pick at least 7 people who make up this jury, and describe how you perceived them as players of this game in just 5 words. you can be shady and sassy, you can be clever and creative, however you see fit! bonus points if you do this for every single person on the jury.
    Stephenie: Could've been a powerful player.
    Lauren: It takes two to tango.
    Liz: Stop hitting yourself!
    Kathryn: Skype Drama Victim #1
    Hosanna: Skype Drama Victim #2
    Fumiya: She tried something, possibly "it."
    Bria: Unlikely to cast her vote.
    Rockstar: Had potential, but fell short.
    Kyungran: Shady powers, shadier choices.
    Anastasia: da bitch got 10th!
    Vanessa: Lovely queen; challenged by challenges.
    Nicole: Also unlikely to show up.
    Perlla: The scariest Danger opponent imaginable.
    David: Made intriguing choices, got unlucky.
    Rachel: Talented. Brilliant. Incredible. Amazing. Showstopping.
    Lion: Too good for this world.
    Beth: Listen sweaty, you're mackerel...
    Gia: and you're fresh tilapia, but...
    Lluvy: I'm ahi mother****ing tuna, bitch!

    to lluvy: people came for you hard from the jump, but you just fought for your spot even harder...and now you have a shot at winning. you definitely make for an interesting candidate as the underdog with so many odds stacked against her but still managing to claw her way to the top, but i am curious...you're more than aware that you were struggling with your connections, and i know you've also been quite busy as well. but if you were able to prepare yourself for the challenges, why couldn't you try and improve your social ties? was there nothing that could be done to at least get some foothold on the dynamics?
    I mean, I accept this criticism. You're absolutely right that I could've done more. I effectively decided to triage social game and focus on challenges and optimizing strategic choices using the game mechanics/powers available to me, only popping in when social game was the only thing that could keep me in the game (like during the final dilemma when I reached out to eagle2ch).

    It's not just about being too busy. I mean, to be clear, I was too busy, and going through some horrible things. It's more about getting in my head? There's a nasty cycle of negative thoughts that I can get trapped in. Because I wasn't updating my games, I was afraid to log into Skype and face the people who were/are disappointed by my inability to keep things together. When I imagine opening Skype and seeing all these overwhelming numbers of messages of people asking me where I am and why I'm not updating anything, I get a feeling of anxiety, so I avoid it. Even now, when there's no reason to think anyone would still be "mad" at me or whatever, the thought of clicking the Skype icon is horrific. It's not even that I don't want to talk to people. Once I do, I always feel better because like, you all are my friends.

    So there's something I lack—a kind of bravery, or willingness to face my problems—whatever it is, that holds me back. You're absolutely right. I could've done these things. I could've thrown myself into the social strategy and tried to nibble away at the edges of the alliance until it fell apart. But I fell into old patterns. Perhaps someday I'll achieve the kind of personal growth where I will overcome this anxiety and face my problems head on. The last few months hasn't been that time. All I can really say is that if the I get another chance to play games on this site, if it's not truly going to stop, I will try to do more to face the patterns of behavior that hinder my gameplay as well as my life.

    But I will say that despite these flaws, I still feel that I played a hell of a game to get here. I don't want to minimize my own struggle; I did what I had to do to get to the end against the odds, and I'm giving it my all to win. I realize that you do highly value social game so I get it if you aren't fully on board, but I hope you will take it all into consideration. Thanks for your questions!

  9. #351

    It's been a week since I opened voting and:

    ◇ 6/14 jurors have voted
    ◇ 10/30 total votes have been cast


    If you see this, please cast your vote! I would like the game to end soon.

    I am hoping for at least some more of the votes, mainly from jurors whom I know
    have been online recently.

    Christie • Cliff • David • Kathryn • Kemi • Nicole • Ovi • Sam • Tommy •

  10. #352




    Beth, Gia and Lluvy...

    ...it's time to announce who has received the most votes from the jury and therefore who
    has won Dilemma V.










    It's been five weeks since I announced the finalists and three weeks since jury deliberation
    began. Though I would've liked to attain all the jury votes and had more overall participation,
    I have given players a lot of time and - considering the recent uncertain status of the site
    and community - I would like to finalize the results of this game and move on. I hope this is
    fair and understandable.

    With that said, the following jurors failed to vote in time:

      Spoiler:  



    This means that a total of 18 (out of the maximum of 30) votes were cast.



    I will reveal the votes of the jurors who voted in order of elimination.

    If there is a tie, then whichever finalist has the best overall performance will win.
    (R1-11 Grid Score + R12 Total Score)




    Stephenie has...

      Spoiler:  


    ...given one vote to Gia.
    ...and given one vote to Lluvy.

    Beth: 0
    Gia: 1
    Lluvy: 1





    Lauren has...

      Spoiler:  


    ...given one vote to Beth.
    ...and given one vote to Lluvy.

    Beth: 1
    Gia: 1
    Lluvy: 2





    Liz has...

      Spoiler:  


    ...given one vote to Gia.

    Beth: 1
    Gia: 2
    Lluvy: 2





    Fumiya has...

      Spoiler:  


    ...given one vote to Gia.

    Beth: 1
    Gia: 3
    Lluvy: 2





    Rockstar has...

      Spoiler:  


    ...given one vote to Beth.

    Beth: 2
    Gia: 3
    Lluvy: 2





    Kyungran has...

      Spoiler:  


    ...given two votes to Lluvy.

    Beth: 2
    Gia: 3
    Lluvy: 4





    David has...

      Spoiler:  
    ...
      Spoiler:  
    ...
      Spoiler:  


    ...given three votes to Lluvy.

    Beth: 2
    Gia: 3
    Lluvy: 7





    Rachel has...

      Spoiler:  
    ...
      Spoiler:  
    ...
      Spoiler:  


    ...given three votes to Lluvy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix
    congratulations once again to you guys for making it to the end.

    unfortunately, two of you weren't able to answer our questions, and that's okay! it happens.
    but the one person who was has been putting up such a level of fight, that really the only way
    i can recognize them for their efforts is by giving all 3 of my votes to lluvy.
    Beth: 2
    Gia: 3
    Lluvy: 10





    Lion has...

      Spoiler:  
    ...
      Spoiler:  
    ...
      Spoiler:  


    ...given three votes to Lluvy.

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2ch
    I really wish the others had responded to the jury but I cant in good conscience vote for anyone
    else over the person that actually took the time to answer my questions so my vote goes to Lluvy.
    Beth: 2
    Gia: 3
    Lluvy: 13




    Which means...










    Congratulations, Lluviana "Lluvy" Gomez!
    You are the winner of Dilemma V by a 13-3-2 vote!



    Something I want to say is this is the strongest group of finalists that this series has ever had. I think there were 5-6 key players
    this season who I think had a great chance at winning the game and Estquer, Nyan and Runic were three of those people. I came into
    this finale seeing any of them winning and I think the three of them - factoring in the ideology that players who outlast others ultimately
    played better whether that is through direct or indirect actions - were the three strongest players this season (closely followed by a
    handful of contenders who were also strong). It's ironic to me that this is the second finale vote that wasn't close despite it being clear to
    me that any of these finalists could have won... and I think that is entirely because unfortunately not all the finalists were able to give it
    their all. Unlike last season where this also occurred, I am not disappointed by this (only a little) and I hope nobody else is either and I also
    do not think it should be a damper on Estquer's win here. With the site recently being the victim of DDoS attacks and the community slowly
    dwindling away, I think the lack of participation from multiple parties here was unfortunate but understandable. Basically, I'm hoping to
    avoid the same drama we had after the Dilemma 4 winner announcement.


    Estquer... I don't know what to say. I am absolutely stoked for you. You wanted this. I knew this from your many in-depth confessionals
    and your opening statement and jury responses that as much as an online strategy game can, this meant a lot to you. As someone who
    had access to the game statistics throughout the game, you were not lying to the jury that you overcame big odds to get to this point and
    for me it was compelling to see you survive and make it each step further. I thought you were done when you lost your first life in the Second
    Life phase but you continued to persevere and survive. Even making it to the end, I was unsure you'd be able to convince the jury to vote
    for you as - as you admitted yourself - your social game was lacking, partly in due to real life circumstances and commitments. Your social
    score in 50/50 Rounds and Social Rounds was consistently abysmal and I often felt that if you entered a Dilemma you'd be screwed or that
    it was guaranteed you'd be put in Danger. With the whole social aspect of the game acting as a mechanical handicap to you round to round
    and with an alliance (and their affiliates) consistently targeting you in those rankings and strategizing to get rid of you... you never gave up
    and kept fighting. Despite being here with two strong, dominant competitors... your underdog status, journey and arc in this game proved to
    be a very strong argument to win over the jury. I think if Nyan and Runic had participated in jury responses, that it was definitely possible
    for you to win anyway. I would have loved to see you, Nyan or Runic win and you were all deserving. With that said, you are a fantastic winner,
    Estquer. I'm so happy to announce that you have won. I feel like if Dilemma V was a simulation and it was simulated 1000 times, the number
    of times you would have reached the finale compared to Nyan or Runic is much lower. The beloved Lluviana Gomez has finally found a favorable
    timeline. This was a season that was severely let down by inactivity so it's somewhat redeeming that somebody who was always prompt, was
    very committed and used whatever tools and minimal connections they had at their disposal to claw their way to the end despite being at such
    a disadvantage could end this season on a high note. A while ago, I was honestly letdown by the seeming lack of interest from my players but
    being able to grant this win to someone who earned it and wanted it has reminded me why I love hosting in the first place. I don't know if this
    is my last game hosted here, which makes me emotional to think about, but I just really appreciate that I could end it on a high... and that's
    in large part to you being a delight to have in my games. First try, baby. Congrats again.


    Nyan, for me it's absolutely undeniable that you played very well. You played dominantly and were strong in all facets of this season. Of all the
    players, you spent most of the time as my #1 winner pick. Unfortunately for you a game rival with a charming underdog arc managed to
    power to the end with you through factors that weren't entirely within your control. I'm not upset at you for not participating further in this
    finale and I understand, but there might always be a bit of disappointment (not directed at you) because I will now always wonder if Estquer
    would have taken this win if you had had the time to present your (great) game further as as I mentioned this is such a strong set of finalists.
    I think yourself and Runic were the primary forces leading to your alliance's success. From my perspective, you both had fantastic showings
    on the strategic and social fronts and though I don't have access to your Skype account, I do have access to the social scores and I have no
    doubt you put a lot of effort particularly into the social aspect of this game. You are not the winner of Dilemma V, but I hope you might agree
    with me that this season was still a redemption for you... I'd compare your game here to Thomnom's, whom you narrowly lost to in Dilemma 3.
    Like Stacey/Thomnom's game in Dilemma 3, you were untouchable and consistent socially, were a driving force for the strategy each round
    and you were very consistent in the challenges. Despite being an obvious frontrunner, you were the target of very few people which is testament
    to the efforts you put into this game and I also want to thank you for being such a great, committed player and coming back to play this season.
    I enjoyed reading your confessionals too. Being runner-up twice in this series is nothing to sneeze at.


    Runic, as I said to Nyan, you were one of the main driving forces of the whole game and you had a strong influence on the whole game. While I'd
    say you and Nyan were both strong social and strategic players, he leaned towards the social side IMO and you leaned towards the strategic
    side. You often were proposing strategies to your alliances, gauging potential ways to progress with the round after the Grid Master had been
    announced and planning potential scenarios. Lurking in your alliance Skype chat was often a delight as I knew you were the first person who'd
    want to make big moves. You were an all-around powerhouse this season. Despite receiving the least amount of votes, you were a huge contender
    to win this throughout the game (and were sometimes my #1 winner pick) and I think the jury and viewers would agree with me there. If Estquer
    had not succeeded in reaching the end, I was predicting a close fight between yourself and Nyan for the title. You should be so proud of your
    game, Runic, I know you always wanted to have a great season like this. As I said to Nyan, I understand that you did not show up but I wish you
    had since they'll always be a "What If"... I could definitely have seen this jury vote for you to win the game. Though you aren't the winner,
    you played a winner-worthy game on what is (probably) your final game on the site. You were one of the users who wanted me to bring back
    Dilemma and you've been a supportive friend to me and someone I could seek reassurance from during this game, particularly when I was sad
    about the quits and inactivity. Anyway, despite this finale being a bit oof, I am really appreciative of you being apart of this, playing this season
    with such a great game and being a joy to have in my games (and my life here on RTVG) as usual. You can finally say you've been a finalist!











    Well, it's over. Things definitely slowed down at the end and the average activity this season was
    the worst it's ever been... but I'm still really glad I hosted this and I am thankful to everyone and
    anyone who did participate and be a part of this (even if by just a little bit).

    There are a lot of new things I did this season which I liked... and a few twists I think didn't pan out
    well (everyone having an Add being one of them). However, I was happy with the quality of the arts,
    I was happy with the challenges and I've had some good feedback about the season.

    I plan to post the Epilogue soon (probably 24-48h) where I will post more information on the Final
    Round, reflect on the twists, encourage players to offer me feedback and share what I would like to
    improve on for Dilemma 6 (if it occurs). This post will also include player Confessionals.





    Christie • Cliff • David • Kathryn • Kemi • Nicole • Ovi • Sam • Tommy •

  11. #353
    Queen of Thorns Estquer's Avatar
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    Sorry it has taken so long to post my response to the outcome. I did see it right away but I’ve been really busy at work and wanted to spend a little more time crafting my post.

    First, thank you to everyone who voted for me! Perhaps I wasn’t all of your first choices, but you based it on the fact that I answered your questions. I’d like to think I could’ve still won the game even if the other finalists and jurors participated fully. It’s certainly possible, but it could’ve been an incredibly close vote considering how strong Runic and Nyan were in this game. Truly, throughout the entire game in particular I thought Nyan was going to win and there was nothing I could do to target him effectively. That’s a huge flaw in my strategy that I didn’t bother pointing out since it wasn’t really my job as a finalist to tell you about ideas I had that didn’t work.

    One thing I’ve been considering is that there was so much information about the strategy in this game that I don’t even know because I wasn’t in a major alliance, so I regret not getting to hear more of the rest of the players’ perspectives. I am looking forward to seeing Vashhee’s post-game post because I’m sure there’s plenty of crazy information that will make my winning the game seem even more like a statistical anomaly. If this season really were simulated 1000 times, I really doubt I would even make it to the end more than 5% of the time.

    But—a win is a win and I will take it! . I wish this section of the site didn’t feel like an eerie abandoned cemetery. It means a lot to me even in this situation. Perhaps more so. I’ve said a lot about this already so I’ll leave it there.

    Thank you so much to Vashhee for seeing the rest of this game through under these difficult conditions. I know how hard it can be to deal with these kinds of situations as a host, so I just want you to know that I appreciate your willingness to stick it out. I had so much fun stressing about my place in the game each round and it truly felt like the world was against me. A huge exaggeration, of course, but it's fun to have that feeling in a game and it was a great motivator to not give up.

    Well—that’s it, I guess. I’m still around, so if people have ideas for something they want me to try hosting that you think will help draw a few more people back, feel free to PM me. If this was the last game I participate in on this site as a player, I’m satisfied with how I did, and that I got Lluvy Gomez the win she deserves after years of being compared to a dead fish. But, I have a feeling that this won’t really be the last one. Here’s hoping!

  12. #354
    RTVG Idol 1331nj's Avatar
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    Congrats, Estquer!

      Spoiler:  










  13. #355
    Brains, Booty, Business VanityEgo's Avatar
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  14. #356
    Brains, Booty, Business VanityEgo's Avatar
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    I'm so ****ing happy for Estquer AND Lluvy ugh <3
    Estquer you're one of the best friends I've made on this website and I'm glad to take this title home. You've been a driving force in making this a fun place, and Vashhee is one of the hosts whose creativity matches yours, so I'm it's a really fitting trophy for you <3


  15. #357


    GOOGLE DOC

    Here is a Google Excel Doc with all the data of Dilemma V.

    You will find voting history on the "Proceedings tab". There are also tabs for each round; e.g.
    R1, R2, R3, etc, which other than previously publicized information includes social rankings
    and any information on power events and other twists.

    Here are the following tidbits I'd consider most interesting:

    1 ◇ The winner of the second Power Event, Desire, was Rachel/Phoenix and Phoenix had
    possession of the Insurgent power for most of the game before it expired and never used it.

    This Power Event was intentionally vague -- the only person to my knowledge who noticed this
    was Estquer -- and it was actually whomever got the least WANT and NOT WANT votes
    overall who would win the power. There was actually a tie between Phoenix, Filler and 1331nj
    which Phoenix won due to having submitted a confessional by that point (I did say in the PM
    that confessionals would slightly affect the game~).

    Phoenix was forbidden from telling anyone he had possession of this power which was an
    intentional choice of mine to try and cause paranoia.

    2 ◇ As some of you already noticed, there was a four-way tie in the Final Round between all
    players except Lion/eagle: I think because Eagle and Phoenix tied in the social rankings and
    it just so happened that the reverse order of the social rankings ended up matching the
    challenge performances. This incredible result would have resulted in only Eagle and Estquer
    being finalists in the case of an all-betray trainwreck with Estquer surviving with four-way
    tie due to one's challenge performance being the tie-breaker to tied Grid Scores.

    3 ◇ The winner of this game narrowly escaped elimination in the Final Round... due
    to one numerical mistake on Betinez's part. 1331nj, Betinez and Estquer were in Danger in
    the Final Round and things were very close, particularly between Betinez and Estquer. Both
    of them had the best performances overall: Betinez had a fastest time in two of the challenges
    (Eureka and Connect) and the third-fastest time in the Flow Puzzle whereas Estquer had the
    fastest time in the Flow Puzzle and the second-fastest time in the other two challenges. This
    would have resulted in a tie in Combined Challenge Score between Betinez and Estquer with
    Betinez prevailing due to having the better performance in the Connect challenge.

    However, this mistake will come back to haunt Betinez. The answer to this equation is "108416".
    24 divided by 6 equals 4, not 3. With this error, I couldn't count that answer as correct and
    Betinez now had a 7/8 correct result which pushed his Combined Challenge Score down and
    meant Estquer actually prevailed. Absolutely crazy how ONE NUMBER changed everything.
    Also, if Beth/Runic had been one minute slower... then Betinez would've prevailed too.

    4 ◇ There was also many Swaps and Rotates that affected the round proceedings more than
    anyone might suspect. I regret not recording by thoughts on this at the time but the power
    usage would often drastically affect the Grid Master choices.













    I apologize if I've missed any confessionals, particularly Skype confessionals. This has taken
    me a LONG time to compile and I'm not particularly in a meticulous mood. Many of the Skype
    confessionals were months ago and I made the mistake of assuming it would be easy to collect
    them. IIRC there weren't many. Also, I haven't included any emoticons, sorry.

    Estquer
    Nyan
    Runic
    eagle2ch
    Phoenix
    1331nj
    betinez
    VULpicks., Remco, VanityEgo & Isaiah













    ◇ Regarding the Addpocalypse ◇

    The Addpocalypse twist or something similar is something I'd wanted to do since I saw the
    twist in Estvivor where everyone had an idol. I was hoping this would create more four, five
    and six-player Dilemmas... which it did. I was expecting this would result in a variety of
    wild possible results, e.g: 2 people opting to betray 3 other players; or even the 3-3 deadlock
    result of a six-player Dilemma.

    What it actually ended up resulting in was that everyone used their Add as a safety net and
    would usually Add someone they trusted into the Dilemma with them. I falsely anticipated
    that more players = more players to potentially betray with but many players expressed to
    me they felt less confident about betraying in these larger Dilemmas. I think this also
    made the voting less suspenseful as players knew that Adds could change the results.

    Due to all the Adds, there was a round where I had to create the Looming Danger twist to
    lessen the chance the game would stall with no consequences. There was a point in the
    mid-game where there was somewhat of a back-and-forth between two separate groups
    who planned to enter the Dilemmas, all choose ally and attain immunity the next round and
    if I felt like these rounds were a waste of time, I'm sure some of my players did.

    The first four-player Dilemma occurred in an early round in Dilemma 2 and since then its
    format has not changed. If you are the only player to choose betray in a four-player Dilemma
    you are solely eliminated and because of this -- as a few players pointed out to me -- this
    caused 4+ player Dilemmas to feel less stressful than three-player Dilemmas. Less stressful
    is akin to less fun and worse game design to me.

    I feel like I let down what I intended with this season with this twist and because of that, if
    I was to end the series now it wouldn't feel right to me. I intended to bring the series back
    to its core more this season -- I still regret the overly-convoluted mess which was the Chain
    Reaction twist -- but it seems I didn't do this enough. If I do host a Dilemma 6 (and it may
    not be at RTVG unfortunately unless things pick up), I know that: it will be three-player
    Dilemmas only and there will be more Dilemmas at the beginning of the game so get past
    the initial slow game pace. More emphasis needed to be on players strategizing about who
    enters the Dilemma than how to strategize and manipulate the Dilemma once being in it. I
    also dislike the special powers I have been trialing in these seasons because they have had
    a tendency to stall the game and result in uninteresting, non-climactic gameplay.

    There was a magic to Dilemma 2 that has yet to be repeated and honestly might never be
    repeated. I definitely intend to really go back to the core experience of Dilemma next
    season (if it occurs) whilst keeping in mind the few positive changes I've made since then.

    It's an original game, probably my most successful original game here, and I hope people
    can forgive me for my occasional mistakes in game design/planning and can respect me
    for acknowledging those mistakes and wanting to improve upon them. I am still thankful
    that players ask me to bring this back and want to play and I'm honestly sorry if this season
    was a letdown from me.


    ◇ Regarding Round Types ◇

    I felt like this addition was more-or-less successful, however, there were a few issues. The
    first was I never felt comfortable with a "Social Danger" situation and quickly regretted that
    idea after the game started. I managed to avoid this situation whilst still provided a good
    mix of round types in an unpredictable-enough order.

    Secondly -- as was evident with Estquer's experience in this game -- social ranking was a
    consistent handicap to him and I felt like this was poor design. Yes, Estquer's social position
    was poor and life issues hurt his opportunities to improve it but there was something about
    this that felt unfair. Yes, he won the game but I still think the design of format meant there
    was next-to-nothing he could do about this disadvantage.

    With that said, I don't necessarily want to return completely to the format of D1 and D2
    where challenges completely decide who stays or who goes. The social aspect of D3, D4 and
    D5 has been interesting sometimes and has encouraged players to form "ranking blocs" to
    target threats. It's also allowed players like VULpicks. and ziduga to thrive and make up for
    being weaker in challenges. With the more recent format, I really feel like anyone can win
    the game as long as they submit challenges.

    "Dynamic Grid Score" is something I might want to try for D6 which is similar to 50/50 format
    except scores dynamically scale in weighting depending on challenge performance. Basically,
    the better one does in a challenge, the less their social rankings will affect their score (up
    to a cap so that social rankings will still affect who wins GM and affect everyone to a degree).


    ◇ Regarding Everything Else ◇

    Dilemma 5 Power Event >>> Dilemma 4 Power Search. Not only was this much less taxing
    for me as a host, but I think the Power Events were much more interesting. As I said though,
    while I was fussier with what powers to include this season, I plan to be even fussier in D6.

    I liked the removal of Bombs, so players would be more encouraged to actively improve their
    rankings through communication. I am very glad I did not include any powers to return to
    the game or skip a round. Fast Forward is still the biggest "What the **** were you thinking?".

    As I said, I was happy with the challenges this season. I think giving everyone two or three
    votes worked well (and -1 if they were eliminated due to inactivity) and I think not granting
    someone a free spot in the finale for having the best Final Challenge performance was a good
    idea.

    I also enjoyed making the summary images each round and felt the were clear and looked
    good. I also think simplifying the rankings was a great idea especially considering the climate
    of the site.

    Finally, I really liked the hexagonal grid and felt it - in particular - made Grid Master choices
    very varied and interesting.










    Players are welcome to post any feedback and congratulations once again to Estquer!!





    Christie • Cliff • David • Kathryn • Kemi • Nicole • Ovi • Sam • Tommy •

  16. #358
    Queen of Thorns Estquer's Avatar
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    Wow, learning those tidbits really puts the statistical absurdity of my win into even more perspective. I am so grateful that this completely preposterous chain of events happened in this timeline.

    A couple of notes on things that stood out to me:

    Re: eagle2ch's confessionals, I am a bit saddened that you felt like you didn't play as well as you could have. I think it's something that's true of pretty much everyone (well, I'll at least say for myself that my refusal to participate in the social strategy is a great indication that I didn't play as well as I could have even though I technically won). I think you underrated yourself and had you made the finals you would've made a strong case for yourself. The very fact that you decided the makeup of the finale is evidence enough that you were a pivotal player.

    Re: the Desire power event, I was curious so I looked back at that PM. I put "Kyungran" for both answers trying to help her no matter which category counted. Unfortunately, that actually put her further away from winning than if I just did one or the other since it was based on fewest total votes. Whoops. #GalaxyBrain

    Re: the Addpocalypse. I feel like I said a huge amount already about this in my confessionals but I don't think at the outset that it was a bad idea for a twist. As a host doing an original game you can't always know what kind of gameplay culture your players will create around a game mechanic. Under different conditions I think it could've led to some of the wild results you were looking for. The same ruleset that you used for this season under peak RTVG could've been epic, so I don't think you should fault yourself for the execution of the twist by the players not matching what you envisioned.

    It sounds like you have a lot of good ideas already about future twists/mechanics for Dilemma, but I'll just add something that came to mind. With respect to 4-6 person Dilemmas, it seems like the risk of being the sole betrayer and the social cost to a successful betrayal far outweighs the benefit of a successful betrayal. Perhaps successful Betray needs to be given even more perks to counterbalance the "conservative" gameplay. If it's valuable enough to successfully betray, more players might be tempted?

    Another concept I think might be interesting to try (perhaps not for a full season but maybe round variant?) would be anonymous 3-person Dilemmas. Instead of announcing the Dilemma voting results, the three players would be contacted privately without knowing who the other two players are. Players would have to ask around to try and figure out what the votes were or find the other dilemma participants. Savvy opponents might pretend to be in the Dilemma to create confusion, etc. The downside of a twist like this is that it could result in less communication, but it might be interesting to try just to see how it would go in practice?

    Re: Round Types. I actually think this was mostly fair. A better player in my situation would've seen the low scores and worked harder to make inroads. Instead, I had a defeatist attitude about it that I was ironically rewarded for. I do think I faced a severe handicap even if I tried to make those changes, but even being lower-middle of the pack instead of dead last could've helped me out if I tried. That being said, I like your idea of dynamic scoring. Another approach for 50/50 rounds might be to give players the option (before doing the challenge) to choose whether they want their scores to be 50/50, 67 social/33 challenge, or 33 social/67 challenge. (Perhaps other ratios?) This would allow players to try going toward their strengths, but a player gambling on challenge scores could easily bomb and screw themselves over if they underperformed. Similarly, a player who thinks they are doing well socially might get canceled and screw themselves over as well. You could even have it so a player has a set number of times they can use each ratio so they have to budget their efforts carefully over the season.

    Re: Summary Images. I loved these! I thought they were really easy to follow and looked very clean.

    Overall, I think you did a fantastic job hosting this game under difficult conditions. I don't players could've asked for much more from you in terms of concept or execution. The play-style of the cast and the environmental factors of the site issues are notable elements distinctive to this season that makes it difficult to compare to the others.

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